Thursday, January 19, 2012

I have faith in Christ, not prophets... and I'm a Mormon


So I’ll give you my personal testimony first: All of this started with a question: If the prophets can never lead anyone astray, then was slavery really the Lord’s will like Brigham Young said? Am I really cursed because of something one of my ancestors did centuries ago? Does the Lord really think my skin is filthy and loathsome? Does He really think every part of my culture is so abominable that it warrants barring ALL of us from exaltation (even though the reason my culture is based on honor and respect is because that’s all we had left after my people were raped, beaten, and sold by a supposedly “civilized” culture based on “white/might-makes-right”)?

James 1:5 told me to ask God, so I did. I asked if He loved me, He said yes. Then I asked Him if He really thought such horrid things about me and my people, He said no. I asked if the church was true and He said yes. But how can this be the true church of Jesus Christ and still have utterly racist prophets? He knew how much I loved to read and research so He lead me to a lot of different stuff- I ignored some of it because of its unreasonableness and only paid attention to the more relevant stuff that directly answered my questions. I was trying to get down to the REAL questions. Which aren’t , “does He love me?” or “is GBH a prophet?” The REAL questions turned out to be “Can the prophets be wrong about doctrine?” and the answer was “Yes, prophets have been wrong in the past, they get stuff wrong today, and they’ll get stuff wrong in the future- but they’re still prophets and you should listen to them.”---“How do I know when the prophets are right and when they’re wrong?”---“Ask Me.”---“Every time?---“ Yes, ask Me every time. I always want to talk to you.”---“Every single time seems kinda tiresome, is there a shortcut or a clue to know when I should discount something that the prophets have said?”---“Be not weary in well-doing: pray unceasingly”---“Everybody in the Church always says to ‘trust the prophets’, prophets aren’t as racist as they used to be, and I agree with everything they say anyway. So cant I just trust and obey them like everyone says?”---“NO, trust in Me and obey My words. The role of a prophet is to point the people in My direction, not become my earthly substitute. Don’t be concerned with what the rest of the church says and does, worry about yourself. Not everyone who is in the kingdom of God belongs to the CHURCH OF CHRIST- remember that the way to eternal life is straight and narrow and few there be that find it.”

So without further ado, this is where He led me as I (re)searched, pondered, and prayed:

1. Joseph Smith, History of the church volume 5 page 267—“a prophet was a prophet only when he was acting as such”

2. Kirtland Safety Society- There was widespread dissention in the church because the people didn’t recognize that not everything a prophet says comes from the Lord and that you shouldn’t put your trust in them- it should be placed firmly in Christ Jesus. If the saints had known where to place their faith and who to ask, they wouldn’t have invested in the bank- or at the very least, they wouldn’t have apostatized when they realized that Joseph Smith had been wrong.

3. Adam/God Doctrine- every part of what BY says about this doctrine reflects his belief that Adam came to this earth as a glorified deity from another glorified planet and that Adam is the only God that we should have anything to do with. There is no way to misunderstand what he is saying. Even if you propose that BY meant that Adam had god-like priesthood authority over his posterity, it still doesn’t reasonably explain most of the nonsense he said. And when so many people supposedly “misinterpreted” his theory as “Adam= Father in Heaven”, BY didn’t correct them but, instead, reamed Orson Pratt for not immediately going along with the supposedly “misinterpreted” doctrine.

"Some years ago, I advanced a doctrine with regard to Adam being our father and God, that will be a curse to many of the Elders of Israel because of their folly. With regard to it they yet grovel in darkness and will. It is one of the most glorious revealments of the economy of heaven, yet the world holds derision. Had I revealed the doctrine of baptism from [sic.] the dead instead of Joseph Smith there are men around me who would have ridiculed the idea until dooms day. But they are ignorant and stupid like the dumb ass." ---Quoted from Manuscript addresses form Brigham Young

(a prophet is only a prophet when he is acting as such and BY isnt acting like a prophet by calling anyone who doesn’t believe in the Adam/God doctrine an ignorant stupid dumb ass)


4. Priesthood Ban- “You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, un- comely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind. The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his brethren will be cursed the longest of anyone of the children of Adam. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race – that they should be the “servant of servants;” and they will be, until that curse is removed; and the Abolitionists cannot help it, nor in the least alter that decree. How long is that race to endure the dreadful curse that is upon them? That curse will remain upon them,[p.291] and they never can hold the Priesthood or share in it until all the other descendants of Adam have received the promises and enjoyed the blessings of the Priesthood and the keys thereof. Until the last ones of the residue of Adam’s children are brought up to that favourable position, the children of Cain cannot receive the first ordinances of the Priesthood. They were the first that were cursed, and they will be the last from whom the curse will be removed. When the residue of the family of Adam come up and receive their blessings, then the curse will be removed from the seed of Cain, and they will receive blessings in like proportion. “- JoD 7:290-291

4a. Black men were ordained by Joseph Smith himself. Before the William McCary “scandal” BY said "Its nothing to do with the blood for [from] one blood has God made all flesh, we have to repent [to] regain what we have lost — we have one of the best Elders an African in Lowell [referring to Walker Lewis ].": Brigham Young Papers, March 26,1847, LDS Church Archives, Salt Lake City, Utah

4b. The Official Declaration was given in 1978, well before nations like China and Russia were open to LDS missionaries (well before many of the family of Adam received any knowledge of the gospel, let alone the priesthood)

4c. Black men with the holy Melchezedek priesthood before the ban was lifted in 1978:
Elijah Abel, March 1836 (ordained as a seventy the following December)
Walker Lewis, 1844
William McCary, 1846
Enoch Abel (son of Elijah Abel), 1900
Elijah Abel (grandson of Elijah Abel), 1935
Black ppl in the Philippines and Figians by 1950 (all with the flat nose/black skin “mark of Cain”)

Doctrinal proof that BY was wrong:
4d. Articles of Faith 2: we believe that men will be punished for their own sins and not for Adam’s transgression. [we aren’t punished for the sins of our fathers- Besides, Cain and his descendants died in the flood. We are ALL descendants of Seth. I WILL acknowledge that I am a descendent of Ham (who was also cursed) but so was Melchezedek through Jebus]

4e. D&C 1:35- For I am no respecter of persons, and will that all men shall know that the day speedily cometh; the hour is not yet, but is nigh at hand, when peace shall be taken from the earth, and the devil shall have power over his own dominion.

4f. D&C 6:4, 11:4, 12:4, 14:4- Yea, whosoever will thrust in his sickle and reap, the same is called of God(NOT whosoever will that is also Caucasian)

4g. D&C 124:50- And the iniquity and transgression of my holy laws I will visit upon the heads of those who hindered my work, unto the third and fourth generation, so long as they repent not, and hate me, saith the Lord. (most ppl in this country think that our church is inherently racist because of the ridiculous things our founding leaders have said and continued to say until the ban was lifted in1978- if that doesn’t count as a hindrance, I don’t know what does)

4h. Abraham 2:11- And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse them that curse thee; and in thee (that is, in thy Priesthood) and in thy seed (that is, thy Priesthood), for I give unto thee a promise that this right shall continue in thee, and in thy seed after thee (that is to say, the literal seed, or the seed of the body) shall all the families of the earth be blessed, even with the blessings of the Gospel, which are the blessings of salvation, even of life eternal. (ALL, not some, not just the white ones- ALL)

5. Nephi asking the Lord to show him what his father saw-instead of just blindly following. (1 Nephi 2:16)

6. Matthew 25, Parable of the 10 virgins: 5 wise virgins who had their own oil (personal testimony) and the 5 foolish virgins who didnt have enough oil and wanted to borrow from the 5 wise virgins. And when the bridegroom (Christ) came, they were stuck outside. They knocked and Christ said that He didn’t know them.

Who DOES He know? His sheep (3Nephi 18:31), HOW do they know Him? By his voice (John 10:27). How do they know the Lords voice from others' voices? Obedience to the HOLY SPIRIT (D&C 38:22) NOT the prophets.

Yes, the prophets teach through the power of the holy spirit but this isn’t the church of Thomas S Monson. It’s the church of Jesus Christ and at the last day, the Lord will call his sheep and the foolish virgins/sheep wont know Him or be able to recognize His voice bc they’re trying to listen for Monson’s voice (as wonderfully cheerful as it is) D&C 84:52- and whoso recieveth not my voice is not acquainted with my voice and, is not of me.

7. 2 Kings 13- prophet leads another prophet astray. [(This one is my personal favorite. (Whether you go by the KJV or the JST, the message is the same: Counsel with the Lord regardless of the words of the prophets.)]


Elohim is the God of truth and reason. The members of the kingdom of God must reasonably ask themselves:

Do you sincerely DISARGEE that ultimately, you have to gain your own testimony of the truthfulness of gospel principles?

Do you REALLY BELIEVE that you won’t be HELD ACCOUNTABLE for following the prophet when he is wrong? That the Lord doesn’t expect you to have the faith to go to Him and ask whether you should blindly follow every word that proceeds out of the mouth of a fallible MAN?

D&C 1:2- For the voice of the Lord is unto all men, and there is none to escape; and there is no eye that shall not see, neither ear that shall not hear, neither heart that shall not be penetrated
James 1:5- If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
D&C 88:82-83 Therefore they are left without excuse and their sins are upon their own heads. He that seeketh me early shall find me and shall not be forsaken.


I guess I'm done for now.

4 comments:

  1. Did you write a paper on this? or was this research done for the blog? Either way. I will accept your testimony. Love ya and hope you move out here!

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    1. just personal research form the 10 years that ive been a member. and stuff my new grampa, Darius Gray, taught me. Ive been trying to reconcile what some of the founding prophets have said and tried to think up a whole bunch of excuses (like "it doesnt count unless the president of the church says it and even then it has to be approved by the quorum). Ultimately i wasnt able to make the pieces all fit unless i threw out the whole "prophets never lead us astray" thing. I asked the Lord if that statement was right and he said No. so thats pretty much it.

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  3. Queen of Sheeba, I love this page. Good research and quotes. The promise that the prophets will not lead us astray means that never again will leadership take the church into apostasy. The fact that Brigham Young and other leaders of his day were outright wrong but the church has healed anyway is proof of that. The old official First Presidency statements that include explanations are refuted by the current statement on LDS.org that "The Church disavows the theories advanced in the past that black skin is a sign of divine disfavor or curse, or that it reflects unrighteous actions in a premortal life; that mixed-race marriages are a sin; or that blacks or people of any other race or ethnicity are inferior in any way to anyone else. Church leaders today unequivocally condemn all racism, past and present, in any form.” (lds.org/topics/race-and-the-priesthood, DL 6 May 2019) The statement, "the church is true," doesn't mean the leaders never do anything false. It means it's God's church and God's priesthood. Thanks for your enlightened post!

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